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Make Paper Lantern LTS at least until Jupiter is 100% consistent and mature

tui shared this idea 5 months ago
In Progress

As a server administrator and user i always like to give my users and clients the best experience ever, with jupiter this is not going to be possible.

Jupiter is not a finished theme that instead to be user friendly or life saver is a nightmare and frustrated theme and here is why:


- Is not possible to customize Jupiter in a easy way that Paper Lantern, you need to use the API and no all users, in fact, just a very small groups of users knows how to use an api; a lot of users put their time an effort to customize their Paper Lantern theme to fits they needs and brand, everything is going to be on the trash.

- A lot of parts of cPanel and WHM are not consistent with Jupiter, some visual elements and parts are just adjusted or ported to fit in Jupiter in someway that parts are just "zoomed" or have a font change or color change, those parts looks that missing, broken or just ugly.

- As a server administrator, i want to have something useful not something beautiful, Jupiter does not have that useful or friendly part and in someway is not beautiful, for server administrator time is gold and with Jupiter we are wasting time trying to find items or sections that with Paper Lantern are just in one or two clicks.

- Usually, servers administrator are behind a computer and big monitors, Jupiter makes everything bigger making that only some few items are on screen instead of have a lot of items for easy administration, lot of clicks, lot of scroll to find something or reach a item.

- Jupiter is not intuitive, intuitive is something that without knowledge makes you fell that you are reaching or clicking the item you need in matter or seconds and makes you confident of what are you doing, with Jupiter you are wasting time because you need to read and navigate the whole page in order to reach or click the item you need, even if you have using Jupiter for a long time, everytime you use WHM or cPanel it makes you feel insecure and lost, even if you are an expert and know cPanel/WHM very well with Jupiter you have this feeling that you are going to click on the wrong part, dont makes you feel confident; Jupiter looks that everything is messed.

- Jupiter does not have translations, a lot of users do not speak english, and Jupiter is not ready for those users that are more than you think.


Jupiter should not be forced until everything is consistent, Jupiter should be an option at least for 2-3 years and and should not be imposed as cPanel is doing.

Jupiter is in diapers and needs a lot of work, not work of few months, Jupiter needs years of work and a lot of feedback, in the other hand, Paper Lantern is very mature and should not be deprecated as it. A mature item should never be replaced for a diapers or experimental item as you are doing with Paper Lantern and Jupiter.


Jupiter and Paper Lantern must coexist together for a lot of time until Jupiter reach a Mature phase or is the choice of more users than Paper Lantern.

In a product like cPanel/Whm that is the "core" of a millions of websites on the world, impose a theme that is in a early stage is not a option.

As a server administrator we need stability, intuitivity, maturity, tools, improvements, bug fixes, security, implementations and incorporation of new technologies and frameworks, compatibility and compatibility with the most used things on the world (this is something that cpanel has been lacking in recent years), not a theme that breaks all server administrator needs, not a experimental or unfinished theme.


As a user we need a friendly and useful interface, styling and theme options.

Jupiter does not comply yet with the needs of the users nor server administrators so Paper Lantern must be LTS at least until Jupiter reach a mature phase.

As a final comment, in the past two weeks i have been using another and popular control panel (especially very popular in the past year), unknown for me, new for me, and i can assure that this other panel that is new and unknown for me didn't make me feel what jupiter is making me feel, so I can say that my request is not for fear or refusal to change, i love changes and im not afraid of changes, is just that Jupiter does not comply with a progress and everything exposed here.

Replies (18)

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I agree.


I manage hundreds of servers and my clients curse the jupiter theme every day. While trying to calm them down I am now shocked that the whm theme has changed in version 102, why is it torturing cpanel customers, when will webpros's "I did it" enforcement end?

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3

I can't agree more, especially when at least 90% of my users are not English speakers. Paper Lantern is great. Yes, there's room for improvement, but it's great. I don't have a single complaint from my users, other than missing translations.

This is an enormous change that can't be forced like this. Don't kill a successful, user friendly product, please!

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3

"If it isn't broken, fix it until it is" comes to mind. Most of us use cPanel/WHM on desktop PCs with large screens, so the UI needs to be designed with that in mind. I don't see it mentioned above, but elsewhere (cPanel forums) I've seen that the load averages won't be constantly displayed -- very bad choice. Please allow Paper Lanter and Jupiter to peacefully coexist until such time as the UI team comes to their senses and gives us enough options to retain the features of Paper Lantern that are being stripped away.

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4

This interface is very bad... So many little glitches and niceties that are gone.

Have the developers tried to use this on a 27" monitor!

- The Dashboard is too wide for 27" monitors

- Can't search Plugins

- Top Apps are not MY top Apps.

- Load Avgs gone

- Side menu is hard to read b/c the icons are gone

- Search in the Top Right which pertains to the menu on the Left? That's odd and creates a disconnect.

- Developer licences warnings cut into the UI of every page

- .... so much more

I can only imagine how hard it would be for new users of WHM to learn under this interface. WHM has hundreds of features to learn about and ripping up the interface like this and making everything generic with a bland menu on the left was a very bad idea to create memory patterns.

In paper lantern, didn't it make sense to search for "Account" and then the menu on the left started to narrow down your results until you read each one that was desired? So simple, yet it makes the system easier to digest as you learn.

I think this release was the pinnacle of dropping the ball. Just b/c you reached v100+ doesn't mean you needed to rush the overhaul of an interface that has been going for over a decade.

UX is the most important part of any system and to push this out with an obvious lack of focus group from trained UX experts really puts a damper on WHM momentum.

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3

I agree, Jupiter is an absolute joke, customers hate it and ask us to change back. They think we designed a crap theme and it makes us look very bad. It's embarrassing. I can't believe they ignored all the feedback and pushed this on us when we have been subjected to such high price increases. It's total inconsideration.

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3

Jupiter as a theme has been designed by people who do not use CPanel and people who seem to call themselves designers without understanding what they design. This feels like it has been designed by people who want something to LOOK smart but without understanding the core REASON FOR THIS TO EXIST.... ie there's a lack of understanding of how the CPanel interface is actually used. I hope Cpanel take on board the feedback provided above.

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3

I'm so sorry, but after trying to work with Jupiter I just can't. It's horrible. Do the people who make these changes ever work with WHM/cPanel? I think not. I'm glad icons are now included but they are terrible! Why are they just black line drawings? Why no color? It simply adds to the stark and bleak nature of the new control panel. I absolutely hate it. And why do you make it so difficult to brand and customize it? Couldn't you use a form like Paper Lantern had? Is it that you don't want us to change anything? I can't possibly ask my customers to use this theme. I'm switching back to Paper Lantern indefinitely. And if this means I can never update cPanel again then it's time to search for another control panel provider. It seems like cPanel has just been shooting itself in the foot lately. A slow and certain suicide for sure.

Greg

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3

I agree with everything that has been said, it is necessary to think better about this topic, until then it is necessary for Paper Lantern to continue co-existing until this new theme is well produced


As it was with the X3 in transition to Paper Lantern, no one went there and suddenly pulled the theme, there was a time, a good job for it to be completed.

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4

We were fortunate (smart) to have our servers running LTS, so we have not had to deal with Jupiter at all yet. We created a development server today and took our first look at Jupiter. We're now stuck between a rock and hard place if/when this rolls in. While it looks a bit odd, we can deal with the Tools tab (the old cPanel interface), but not the solutions tab. We also can't default everyone to Paper Lantern, as there is a huge deprecated message at the top. That would send a really good message to our customers. The Solutions tab, needs to go (or give us an option to disable).

  • Why in the world would we want to send our customers to the cPanel site for documentation, we we have that on our site?
  • Why would you send a customer to a cPanel documentation page for updating Easy Apache, MySQL etc. when they click on a link labeled "How do I update PHP?" No cPanel user can do any of that.
  • We use Softaculous, not WordPress Toolkit, so "How do I install WordPress" is useless.


I could go on and on with all the links in the various sections, but we don't want our customers seeing any of that.
The bottom part is just as funny.

  • Documentation -OK, this "could" be useful, but we disable a number of things in cPanel. If clients actually went to this we get lots of support tickets asking why they don't have "x, y and z".
  • Video tutorials - There are some old cPanel tutorials (3 or so years old) and they are all paper lantern
  • Forums - Really, you want customers posting questions in the forum?
  • cPanel University - Again, Really? These are all courses for sales and technical support, not end users.

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2

Also, switching to Jupiter mean, recreate all the screenshots in our own Knowledge Base, which will takes a lot of time (and cost a lot of money, as time is gold). I agree for a LTS of 2 years, at least!

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1

Here's more rant on how bad this UI decision was.

https://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1865668

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We have create a feature request for an option to disable the solution page, please vote for this:


https://features.cpanel.net/topic/22347-jupiter-theme-make-option-to-disable-solution-page-in-cpanel

The solution page is not useful for many customers. There must be an option to disable it.

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10

Thank you everyone for the vigorous discussion here. Wanted to point at a recent announcement of ours to let you know that we're listening and making room in the schedule to address your feedback:

https://blog.cpanel.com/jupiter-version-102-and-you/

The blog post there is intended to acknowledge all of the key feedback items coming in. We're spending the additional time to pursue the following things (unordered list):

  • Reschedule the debut of the deprecation message in Paper Lantern to much later this year.
  • Remove the Solutions section from Jupiter :2083 entirely until an upcoming project can fully realize the guided assistance features and customization features.
  • Increase the supported sizes of your company logo in Jupiter :2083.
  • Provide the means to inject your custom content into areas throughout Jupiter :2083 much the same way as in Paper Lantern.
  • Restore the left navigation to WHM and address scrolling/positional bugs.
  • Enhance the new icon set with thicker lines and more color.
  • Provide the means to personalize the Top Tools section of WHM's index.
  • Provide load averages and other server statistics directly on the WHM index page, turning the page into more of a dashboard.
  • Provide a UI inside WHM which facilitates basic customization of cpanel (:2083).

Additionally, we are addressing a blockage in our translation pipeline which will increase the number of strings sent off for translation nearly double. Expect finished translation in later releases as translators finish their work.


Stay tuned to builds on the EDGE and CURRENT tiers for when these changes will arrive. We'll have further details about Paper Lantern's future in the next week or two.

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Thanks for listening and responding!

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As silly as it may sound; you've just made my working day. Thank you.

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2

Thank you Adam!

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Thanks Adam and team!

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Wow, this is such great news! As for me, I really appreciate the fact that cPanel has listened to us, their customers. For awhile there I was thinking we were totally being ignored. Everything stated above addresses just about all of my concerns so I am excited for these developments. Hopefully, the first thing on that list is to get rid of that annoying deprecation notice that makes all of us hosting providers look bad to our customers.

Greg

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The deprecation notice was removed in 102.0.4 (https://go.cpanel.net/changelog):

  • Fixed case PH-17696: Remove the Paper Lantern deprecation message from the cPanel interface.

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2

Status update for everyone regarding the bulleted list of how we're addressing your feedback. Many of them are available right now in v102 and we'd love for you to check them out.

Here goes:

  • Reschedule the debut of the deprecation message in Paper Lantern to much later this year. DONE
  • Remove the Solutions section from Jupiter :2083 entirely until an upcoming project can fully realize the guided assistance features and customization features. DONE, if you'd like to be involved in envisioning this section for future development, please take the Jupiter Theme Feedback survey in this blog post
  • Increase the supported sizes of your company logo in Jupiter :2083. - IN PROGRESS, should be released in a minor build shortly. Supported sizes have been bumped up and we are considering further increases in future major versions.
  • Provide the means to inject your custom content into areas throughout Jupiter :2083 much the same way as in Paper Lantern. -- IN PROGRESS, development team is actively working on this right now. This should be released in a minor build shortly.
  • Restore the left navigation to WHM and address scrolling/positional bugs.- PARTIAL, the left nav is back on the WHM index page (available now), and the scrolling/positional bugs are being worked on.
  • Enhance the new icon set with thicker lines and more color. DONE
  • Provide the means to personalize the Top Tools section of WHM's index. - IN PROGRESS, this may arrive as API only support for v102 with UX changes to follow in the next major version. Will provide another update on this one.
  • Provide load averages and other server statistics directly on the WHM index page, turning the page into more of a dashboard. DONE, available right now in a minor build
  • Provide a UI inside WHM which facilitates basic customization of cpanel (:2083). -- IN PROGRESS

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Another update for everyone: v102.0.7 was released last night on our EDGE tier and its got quite a few changes in it from our list of projects above. Please spend a moment and install it on a non-production box to check out. Changelog is over here.

Unless blocking issues are discovered, v102.0.7 is considered a candidate for our RELEASE tier. If you wanted a warning before 102 arrives on our RELEASE tier, this is that heads-up!

Due to some schedule timing, we are retargeting a couple of things into future releases...

  • Documentation for how to use the new Content Includes support in Jupiter will be published in a week or two. You'll find it very familiar if you've used Paper Lantern's previous support. We've taken the opportunity to create cleaner and predictable conventions and file locations.
  • "Provide a UI inside WHM which facilitates basic customization of cPanel :2083" is being targeted for 104, but we're working to backport it to 102 before 102 arrives on our STABLE tier. If we can't make that deadline, the fallback plan is that it arrives in v104.
  • "Customize Top Tools in WHM" has been fully rescheduled to v106, which begins development later this month. It will arrive with APIs and UI changes all at once, rather than piecemeal, on our EDGE tier in June/July of this year.

That's it in terms of updating expectations. All of the other items in my bulleted list from March 2 are available now in v102.0.7!

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"cPanel® Version 102 now in RELEASE!" (just clicked on the update notification in my WHM and now I'm on v102.0.8)

UGH!

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Yes, and sadly there is no going back. When I discovered this I stopped updating my servers and reset my remaining servers' Update Preferences to Stable. This Jupiter so called "upgrade" still has issues, and it's a classic example of a violation of the basic rule "If it aint broke, don't fix it." I would be happier with it with small improvements, like decreasing the line spacing on the left sub menus. The menu items that wrap are barely indistinguishable with the non wrapping lines, making it more difficult to find something quickly. And why is the font so large? How about reducing the sub menu font by just a small amount? And I am dreading the day when we are forced out of Paper Lantern. My customers are going to scream!

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I actually like the general direction and clean layout of Jupiter, but agree with op and others that it is nowhere near mature enough to be forced as the only available option, when there are such significant disruptions in usability and no way to even temporarily switch back and find the setting or feature you're looking for.


Within 3 minutes I already discovered that searching for "PEAR" produces no results, whereas in the previous version it would correctly return the Module Installers / PHP Extensions and Extensions Package page.


I also agree with others here that the missing load averages constantly on the page (without having to expand the "Server Menu") is inconvenient and impractical for easy background monitoring that was so convenient before.


I too would like to see Paper Lantern make a return as an LTS option, even if not the default, until Jupiter can match the usability of Paper Lantern without creating any cumbersome usability challenges or inconsistencies as it seems to be now.

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